I CANT WIN!!!!!!!

[SHYGLASGOWGIRL1988]

Hey again. Thanx so much for replying to me.

Yeah I mean he has txt and said he is so sorry for everything. That he can see he caused it all because of his behaviour. He brought his issues with his ex into our lives. He now sees that he was so bang out of order and if I go back then I will b free to go where I want when I want and he will fully support everything I do. Saying he fell in love with the real me and shouldn't never try to change me because he is so lucky to b with me. I do genuinely think he means it but I really don't know if he would ever b able to. He seems adamant he will but I just can't see it right now. I think he does now get that i need space. I havnt heard anything today at all. Yeah I'm 29 and he's 38 with 3 boys, a dog and now 2 guinae pigs lol

There has been so much more said but yeah he has taken responsibility for it all.

I also really want to and well have it out with him and talk about every little thing but I'm scared I will just cave and go straight back

[Tarantula]

Don't see him then. You don't owe him anything. How many times have you 'had it out' in the past? What difference did it make?

The wiser part of you knows he's just gassing any old thing to get you to go back, with no real strategy for change. There also comes a point where, even if he HAS suddenly had genuine relevations and spontaneously gained PhD in sorting-his-issues-out.... it's just too late. I have a feeling, with respect, that you are exaggerating just how forthcoming and convincing he's been to try and qualify the part of you that wants to go back... But as I say, even if he could make it all different now, so what? Hasn't this already cost you enough time and sanity? The risk of going back to old ways will always be there.

But don't get me wrong. I still say he's chatting rubbish and all that will happen if you go back is more of the same. It might be okay for up to a week, max, and then it'll be back to him making your life a living hell, now with INTEREST because you dared to make a break for freedom - ohhh, you're gonna pay dearly for that. He has to make sure you never pull that one again. Padded cell? You won't know the half of it.

By the way, there is often some truth to the idea that the way people treat you, and the things they accuse you of, is actually a reflection of them and what THEY are doing. Have you ever checked HIS phone? Is HE loyal/trustworthy? I'm gonna speculate no. I would not be the least surprised if he's tindering it up right now, scouting the scene for the next victim in case you really do follow through.

[SHYGLASGOWGIRL1988]

Hey yeah I know. I am trying to think logically here.

I can honestly say no I am not exaggerating at all. In fact I havnt said even half of what he is saying. If he was capable of doing what he says he will then it would b a perfect relationship and I do know he wants and yeah I even said this to him that it might last a wee while but I just can't see right now how he would be capable of it.

We've never really had it out properly before because he has had a twisted attitude about it and never really listened to me. I mean I want to sit and down and discuss every tiny little thing that has happened . Tell him exactly how he made me feel because I didn't always do that. I was afraid to. Im not anymore. Ido know now that he will listen but still I just can't see it being put into practice . He's not a bad guy honest and it will break my heart to break his but I have to do what's best for me for a change .

With regards to him being honest etc i do actually trust him because he has always been very up front with me about things . And his one pet hate is lieing . Even the boys will tell you that. He always makes a point about honesty and i do feel he is. U might think I'm crazy but I feel I can trust and hell no he ain't on tinder (without sounding big headed) he loves me too much if that's even possible. I think that's partly why he has been acting crazy and made me feel like I was suffocating . He knows he has been pushing me away.

Btw if i am wrong about the tinder thing then yeah I will feel very very foolish but I do feel I know him better. He has made me his whole entire world .

Thank you for keeping in touch . It is giving me that extra little bit of strength to stick to my guns even though I feel like a horrible person doing it. I really do appreciate it

[Tarantula]

No worries at all. Here to help/empower/inspire/provoke/challenge/annoy (delete as appropriate).

Bit of a tangent here, but I found your response to the tinder speculation a bit... odd. You almost sounded proud that he 'loves' you too much to do that.... but the way he has treated you isn't love! It's control!!!!!

I mean this with greatest respect and empathy (because I've been there too, I really have), but I feel like your concept of what love is might be a bit skewed right now. Love isn't suffering like you have been suffering. If he loved you, then your wellbeing would be bigger than his demons, bigger than his need for control, bigger than his accusations. He would have listened to you by now, it wouldn't have needed it to come this far before he shows willingness to do that.

I don't think he loves you, I think he NEEDS you - he needs someone willing to take his rubbish. And, above all, he needs to control you in order to inflate his fragile self esteem. When it comes to a choice between his need for control and your need for happiness, he will always put his needs first and that ain't love. Real, mature love makes you feel balanced and content and NOT like you'll end up in a padded cell. Those were your words, remember. This isn't love, this is a needs-exchange. If you stop supplying, he'll be straight back on the look out for someone who will.

Because, in a way, it isn't really about you, the uniqueness of you, the totally special way that you put up with him that no other woman who was also at an emotional low point when he met them could possibly do... it's about his needs being met.

That's all that matters. He hasn't made you his world. He's made CONTROLLING YOU his primary source of validation.

I could be wrong, but in my experience, the things they worry that you will do are probably things they're doing themselves es. Anyway it's meant as good for thought and not to distract from the main issue, which is that you need to stay strong and stay away regardless of what he may or may not be doing because he's put you through actual hell and you know way better than I do that things ain't really gonna change if you go back. You'll just end up hating yourself even more for not being 'strong enough' to go, when the truth is you have been emotionally battered into blaming yourself for everything and he has taken advantage of your vulnerability 100%.

[SHYGLASGOWGIRL1988]

Hey.

Oh I really didn't mean for my response to come out as proud or whatever. I really didn't because I know the situation is messed up. I just do genuinely think he does love me and even people I have spoken to about everything now think he does but can realise he has many many issues and life just can't be lived like that.

Yeah I certainly can't disagree that this relationship has pushed me to breaking point but I still can't stop hurting because I do actually miss him loads right now

He said said he is going to stop drinking because alot of the time all his crazy thoughts got escalated through drink. And says he now knows that drink is not an escape . Don't get me wrong I know that drink just brings to the surface what you are already thinking or feeling. I really know deep down he probably won't change but does appear to want to.

I am trying to stay strong. I really am. I still havnt caved in and went over so to me that is a huge step. Thank you

[reckoner]

For the record, I can believe he loves you. Or at least that he believes he loves you, as well as I can believe that he believes all the things he says to you. The problem for me is that the more perfect everything that he says is, the more impossible it seems for him to achieve it; it makes the gap between how he says he's going to make you feel and how he's actually going to make you feel seem even more obvious and inescapable. I'm not sure there's much of a decision process to be made here, it's more a question of how long you can tolerate the disparity. I think there will come a point when you simply can't tolerate it anymore and just physically walk. I'm predicting you won't even feel like a decision was made; your body will just finally agree with your mind and walk out the door for itself.

I don't know if it's an age thing or experience but I think one (needs to) reach a point in relationships where you understand that people's feelings are no one's responsibility but their own. Even if there were no question in anyone's mind about his love for you and expression of it, that should not stop you leaving the relationship if you could no longer commit to it, for whatever reason. And if they really genuinely loved you, it would be even more important to leave them to find someone who could reciprocate those feelings. So from a decision making point of view, each person decides for themselves whether they want the relationship or not and only if it's two yes-es is it a goer. So his love, words of love or lack thereof are, to my mind, irrelevant to your decision, it's about your feelings entirely. Being honest with your own feelings is the only way you can truly respect the other person's. Anyone who expects you to be responsibile for their feelings has not learnt to manage their own and they will see all their problems as someone else's fault.

There is no good end to a relationship in that it's always painful and always involves hurt. The more love involved, the more it hurts to finish it. No one can expect to avoid it. But I feel that he has given you responsibility for his feelings, and you have taken it, and that's why this is so hard, as it would be for almost anyone because only a psychopath wants to deliberately hurt people.

I think for now you should forget about making or sticking to a decision. I think focus on the space you've got so you can recover your energy and nerves and I think the decision will take care of itself when you're ready.

[Tarantula]

I agree that the love question is irrelevant either way.

It's kinda good that you've got me and reckoner being, I suppose, good cop/bad cop. She's taking the 'what you resist, persists', calm and gentle approach of when you're ready, it won't feel so difficult... which I understand. Whereas I'm like, the time is now, stay disciplined, stay strong and don't go back no matter what!!

What we all agree on is that yes, you have taken a massive step towards freedom and for that you should be proud! If you did cave at this point, well, it would be hypocritical of me to get mad or whatever, because I've done it myself. That being said, I really, really, really hope you don't. For your sake, even for his sake (you leaving - for good - might just be the wakeup call he needs to sort himself out, ok let's entertain that..), and for his sons' sakes at well. Of course all the chaos can't be good for them either.

I agree that if you tear yourself in two now trying to MAKE A FINAL EVERLASTING DECISION you will probably burn yourself out and that's not good. So yes, focus on the present moment, look after yourself with time with friends and your mum, exercise, comedy shows, whatever you like what makes you feel good... and it will get easier, in time. No one can make this part easier for you, unfortunately.

Just imagine the possibilities once all this is over, though. New life! New happiness! Being able to see your mum without having to justify it! What a liberty, huh?

[reckoner]

It's kinda good that you've got me and reckoner being, I suppose, good cop/bad cop.

Between sooner and later and one way or another, I think we're complementing each other rather nicely

[snail]

How are you doing, Glasgowgirl?

[Tarantula]

Yeah, fill us in please..!

[SHYGLASGOWGIRL1988]

Hey, really sorry I vanished off the face of the earth. A lot had been going on. I just thought I would back and let you all know that I finally left the relationship. Yes I should have done so a year or 2 ago but I was in so deep I couldn't see a way out but on Friday it finally happened. To be honest he actually gave me the push I needed to just go. True colours were most definitely shown. I don't know if anyone will see this so I will post a new thread also.